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Owners Obligations
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Are you aware of the obligations on dog owners in the Companion Animals Act? What can Council do to help make you more aware?
This online discussion forum has concluded. You can still browse the site but the discussion area will no longer accept new comments or votes.
Comment 1 19 Jun 2010, 4:40 PM
I believe I am aware but it never hurts to remind people of their responsibilities by way of politely worded signs in off leash areas.
Comment 1.1 28 Jun 2010, 5:53 PM
I agree, sometimes a reminder is in order. However I'd like to remind Council of their responsibilities under their 1999 'Companion Animals Management Plan' which they adopted and which entitled them to a rate increase from all rate payers. Under the 1998 Companion Animal Act - Section 13 - Councils were required to provide off-leash exercise areas, bags and refuse bins. A Council meeting 30/10/2000 recommended that a draft Public Open Space and Dogs Policy be placed on public exhibition for six weeks and invite public comment, it didn't happen. Now ten years later, after we rate payers have paid the increased rates without adequate exercise areas allocated in the majority of the Hastings and Camden Haven, finally we have this forum. To this end I'd like to thank Garry Payne for listening to us dog owners, who pay around 50% of Hastings rates and are entitled by law to off-leash accessible exercise areas. The provision of animal exercise areas provides choice for all residents.
Comment 1.1.1 29 Jun 2010, 8:15 PM
I had no idea about councils responsibily. Thank you for sharing this.
Comment 1.1.1.1 30 Jun 2010, 8:33 AM
You're most welcome. I'll find the links to this imformation and post it later today. Makes for a very interesting read.
Comment 1.1.2 29 Jun 2010, 10:12 PM
Would be interesting to know the facts about Council's responsibilities.
Perhaps the PMHC Project Coordinator can respond?
Comment 1.1.2.1 30 Jun 2010, 5:42 PM
I haven't had much success in finding the electronic links however if you scroll down you'll see a very good summary of the Council's responsibilities provided by AXG. I have printed copies of the documents relating to these issues, commencing in 1998 with a circular to councils by the Dept of Local Government. This document details the responsibilites of NSW Councils in relation to provision of off-leash areas, bins and community education. Being on paper I can't load it up here but there's no doubt that outlying areas of the Hastings and Camden Haven have not received benefits 10 years on, despite paying higher rates.
Comment 1.1.2.1.1 30 Jun 2010, 6:06 PM
This must have been drawn to Council's attention previously
Will the PMHC Project Coordinator respond in the interests of informed/even-handed discussion?
Comment 1.2 28 Jun 2010, 7:53 PM
There are good signs at the north end of Lighthouse Beach and at the four-wheel access area but many people ignore them.
Comment 1.2.1 28 Jun 2010, 8:30 PM
I believe the Council covers Wauchope, Camden Haven as well as Port Macquarie. From my observations Port Macquarie fares quite well for dog beaches. The rest of the Hastings population does not. If you'd like to check signs, look at Middle Rock dog access, figure out what that is about...It both bans and allows dog access. Amazing signage!!
Comment 2 21 Jun 2010, 6:06 AM
Sorry, but the last time I saw Nobby's Beach, what a state!
Port Macquarie has so little designated patrolled beach space, and what does it have.......Nobby's owned by dogs, Miners, by the nudists. So, the dogs have rights??? I am left behind! Thank You
Comment 2.1 21 Jun 2010, 11:51 AM
it certainly has a lot of traffic.. i have seen the Nobby's beach users group fill bags as they collected rubbish and particulalrly bottles which i am sure were not left by those users.
Comment 2.2 21 Jun 2010, 6:56 PM
I walk on nobbies and swim there a lot. I am not a dog owner bu the dogs make the beach and most owners are very responsible. The Council needds to keep up the doggie doo bags as well.
Comment 3 21 Jun 2010, 3:02 PM
If a council ranger catches an owner not picking up
their dogs droppings , they should proscute and ensure
the offence (if proven) is published in our local
paper, with the name of the offender . Then ,and only
then will we have clean sidewalks and beaches.
Comment 3.1 21 Jun 2010, 4:05 PM
I back onto a reserve with a walking track at Cathie & I am constantly picking up other dogs turds at my back gate, as this is a weekly event its obvious that the dog owners are letting this happen.
I think Council Rangers need to be proactive & start getting slack dog owners to be responsible for their dog mess & the above suggestion of publishing offenders may encourage slack dog owners of their responsibilities
Comment 3.2 24 Jun 2010, 2:29 PM
education first, then try the big stick
Comment 4 21 Jun 2010, 8:48 PM
I walk for an hour most days - either on the streets, or the walking paths, or the beach. I have been attacked by a small dog in the street, bailed up by a German Shepherd in the street and a dog on Lighthouse Beach and have been 'rounded up' several times on the beach and jumped on many times. My wife won't walk on Lighthouse Beach now for fear of being knocked over by a dog. We believe that any dog being walked in a public place in the vicinity of other people should be on a leash.
Comment 4.1 22 Jun 2010, 9:53 PM
I was walking my Cavalier by leash in a designated dog area and was verbally abused by a stranger within 3 inches of my face for having a dog near him. My Cavalier is loved by children, who for a number of reasons are unable to enjoy having a dog. The benefits of these interactions with children far out way the few negative incidents that do happen.
Comment 4.2 24 Jun 2010, 2:30 PM
the dog should be trained before going off leash
Comment 4.3 27 Jun 2010, 4:42 PM
Removed by moderator - the comment failed to respect other users
Comment 4.4 27 Jun 2010, 5:29 PM
Removed by moderator - the comment failed to respect other users
Comment 4.4.1 27 Jun 2010, 8:45 PM
Removed by moderator - the comment failed to respect other users
Comment 5 22 Jun 2010, 12:44 PM
Owners who let their dogs roam the streets clearly are not responsible dog owners. Residents with dogs need to be reminded of their responsibilities. Perhaps a reminder could be sent out with rate notices and the associated penalties for non compliance.
Comment 5.1 29 Jun 2010, 11:46 PM
I suspect owners that allow their dogs to roam the streets are not rate payers. Rather, they are people who are renting and move rather frequently. I'm more concerned about cats being put outside at night. They cause much more harm to wildlife than dogs ever could. Yet they don't seem to rate a mention???
Comment 6 22 Jun 2010, 3:56 PM
Dog owners are generally well aware of their responsibilities
Council could have used the opportunity of this forum to include a summary of the obligations
Council could make people more aware by using all the usual communication channels
Providing dog poo bags would be most helpful
Comment 7 22 Jun 2010, 8:35 PM
If the council wants to inform the general public of the responsiblities and obligations of the dog owners then they should advertise (by way of a sign)in close proximity to the user area (eg beach). Incidently, I own two dogs and enjoy taking them to the beach for exercise. I feel providing dog poo bags (free) encourages even the less responsible dog owners to conform. However, the council needs to regularly refill these dog poo bags - I regularly notice the dog poo bags empty at lighthouse and bonny hills. Not refilling these doo poo bag stations sends the wrong message to the irresposible dog owners (that cleaning up after your dog is not a priority of our community)
Comment 8 23 Jun 2010, 5:17 PM
Decent dog owners will pick up their critter's poo if they have a bag. Most have their own supply of bags, as well as the council's free offering.
However there is a minority of 'Smarties' who deliberately walk on, ahead of their dog, so as not to see their dog's doings. I see several of these individuals each day, they are encouraged by council's lax policing of the law. These disingenuous souls need to be heavily fined, or perhaps better still given community service days during which they must pick up all kinds of refuse and especially dog poops
Comment 8.1 24 Jun 2010, 2:36 PM
most dog owners have bags-on-board to pick up after the dog has gone to the toilet, those that do not should be enticed to do so.
Comment 9 26 Jun 2010, 6:12 PM
Even the friendliest, most well-trained dogs can be quite frightening to children (and some adults). I was knocked down as a child by an English Sheepdog - not exactly a viscious breed, however, this animal was HUGE to me, and terrifying - yet it only wanted to lick my face! Thankfully it wasn't enough to leave me 'scarred for life' and I still love dogs. Now I watch as my children try to navigate their way home from the nearby bus stop without encountering one of the three or more dogs who are allowed to run free outside my home - one of which barks menacingly at them, and another which comes onto my private property and scares the **** out of my cat! In saying this tho, I think having public space for dogs to run off leash is still invaluable. In a designated 'dog' public space, other people can CHOOSE to go elsewhere if they feel threatened by dogs. But please, dog owners, just because you feel confident that your dog is the nicest dog ever, don't underestimate the fear that they may cause other people, especially kids! (and cats)!
Comment 9.1 27 Jun 2010, 4:34 PM
Like pink we have had many experiences with dogs, some good & some bad. We have had working dogs & pet dogs, but I find it most annoying when trying to access areas where I am not jumped on or my personal space invaded, people seem to think that everyone "loves" their dog. We have had our clothes urinated on at the beach, one dog grabbed clothing & raced off along the beach with it, while the owner thought this "cute", I am afraid I fail to see the humour in this when my things our ruined. Many dog owners more…
Comment 9.1.1 27 Jun 2010, 4:49 PM
You are obviously very anti dog.Very sad.NO you do not have the right to walk on any beach anywhere.We dog owners and our dogs have rights too.
Comment 9.1.1.1 27 Jun 2010, 5:06 PM
It appears you are one eyed in your view, we are dog lovers & have had dogs for well over 50 yrs which have been part of our family & have been well loved & cared for, we have always done the right thing with our dogs, but its a shame that a minority of dog owners think they are the only one with rights to the beach & don't consider anyone else.
Comment 9.1.1.1.1 27 Jun 2010, 5:35 PM
Some people pretend to like dogs but it is obvious that they really don't. Involved in animal welfare I can see through this. As a local of 40 years,a working tax payer and a rate payer I will advise you that if you dont like dogs on beaches then keep away.I frequent the beach daily and NEVER encounter any issues.Some people just love to winge.
Comment 9.1.1.1.1.1 28 Jun 2010, 7:36 AM
I don't own a dog at the moment, but have spent many hours volunteering my time to dogs on 'death row', walking them, loving them, trying to find homes for them - but the issue really isn't about whether we are dog lovers or not. I think the issue here is that we all need and are entitled to feel safe in our community. There should be SOME designated dog zones, which the public enter at the risk of being licked, bumped, jumped on or even barked at (but not bitten). But in OTHER public areas, dogs owners should be really aware of their dog's potential or perceived 'danger' to others - from threatening behaviour or breed reputation for being viscious, to overly loving and/or excitable knocking people down. Its about RESPECT, CARE and CONCERN for others (dogs can still be winners in this too).
Comment 9.1.1.1.1.2 28 Jun 2010, 8:05 PM
Probably most of the people who contribute to this Forum are taxpayers, rate payers and have lived in Port Macquarie for a long time. Those who write about problems with dogs don't deserve to be branded, without any evidence, to be dog haters and wingers. They just want the problems to be seriously considered by Council.
Comment 9.1.1.1.1.2.1 28 Jun 2010, 8:54 PM
Dogs are great companions.They help sooth ones temprament and are a well documented treatment for anxiety ,depression and for those that suffer panick attacks.
Comment 9.1.1.2 29 Jun 2010, 8:43 AM
The right you have as a dog owner is granted, however "ckh", its a right based on your obligation and very dog owners obligation to ensure that the dog is fully controlled no matter where or what the circumstances. I don't equate the rights of dogs with those of humans, I do howver support the right of dog owners to enjoy time with their animal as long as the owner understands and meets their obligations when in open public space. I'm not sure suggesting that people "stay away" if they don't like dogs on beaches is an indication that your understanding of your obligations!
Comment 9.2 27 Jun 2010, 8:48 PM
Elderly people also have special reasons to be afraid of dogs knocking them over. If bones are broken it is no consolation to know that a large dog was just trying to be friendly.
Eustace
Comment 9.2.1 28 Jun 2010, 6:00 PM
Dogs have a need to exercise and socialise.Most dog owners are highly responsible.If an elderly person dislikes/afraid of dogs or unsteady on their feet, they require a safe place to walk ie a concrete pathway with a mobility aid ie a walking frame.The beach is obviously out of question for these people.Problem solved.In all the years of walking my dog on the beach at Port over the last 55 years wich I do most days, I have NEVER seen anyone knocked over or harassed by a dog.
Comment 9.2.1.1 28 Jun 2010, 7:44 PM
I find this hard to believe. I have been walking most days in Port Macquarie for twenty years and many times have been harassed by a dog. In most cases it was it was on the part of Lighthouse Beach north and a short distance south of Watonga Rocks, where dogs are supposed to be on a leash. I walked in the same area today and counted eight dogs not on a leash. This is in mid winter. In summer when there are a lot of visitors with dogs it is much worse.
Comment 9.2.1.1.1 28 Jun 2010, 8:46 PM
What does harrass mean ?? A dog coming within fifty meters of you??
Why walk on Lighthouse beach(designated dog beach) if you dont like dogs?Funny thing I walk every day on this beach and have done for 40 years and NEVER encounter this.
Comment 9.2.1.1.1.1 28 Jun 2010, 9:30 PM
A few examples of harass. Being bitten. Being knocked over. Being barked and snarled at by a dog two metres away who keeps making short rushes to get within a metre of you. Being hit in the middle of the back by a large dog you had no idea was behind you. Being stopped from going foward on a footpath, with other people, by a German Shepherd standing in the middle of the footpath barking continuously and threateningly. Being followed by a dog which continues to get behind you and tries to nip your heels each time you turn to try and walk away. Being jumped on by a large friendly dog which puts its front paws on your chest.
Curiously I rather like dogs and our family has had several.
Comment 9.2.1.1.1.1.1 29 Jun 2010, 12:24 PM
Eustace,
You are able to access excellent treatments for panic disorder via your GP.You have a real fear of dogs don't you!!
Comment 9.2.1.1.1.2 29 Jun 2010, 8:50 AM
Harass in this instance, generally means that people don't naturally assume that the dog is friendly, that they don't know the dog's temperament and are wary of it. It also means that owners who choose to walk their dogs need to be mindful of others in the vicinity and respect the fact that not all people are confident in close proximity to free running dogs. The fact that people feel this way does not necessarily mean they "hate" dogs.
Comment 9.2.2 28 Jun 2010, 6:08 PM
That's why it's important off-leash areas are available and designated. Dogs can run off some steam without causing issues to others and if people are aware it's a 'dog area' they can avoid it. Lots of elderly people have companion animals that need to run unrestrained, allowing the dogs to enjoy their exercise while their elderly owner watches. Surely that's not an unreasonable arrangement?
Comment 9.2.2.1 28 Jun 2010, 7:50 PM
The area south of the four wheel access to Lighthouse Beach is quite suitable as an off-leash area. Unfortunately many people let dogs run free on the supposedly restricted part of Lighthouse Beach. My wife has complained to Council Office on several occasions but the problem had never been overcome.
Comment 9.2.2.1.1 28 Jun 2010, 8:38 PM
Actually the area Suth of 4WD access at Lighthouse beach is not adequate to sustain rate payers walking of dogs.It is often like Pitt Street Sydney.Very dangerous with 4WD, camels and horses.Myself and many others have complained to Council on many occassions re some of the dangerous driving on the beach but to no avail.The designated area needs to be increased to designated off leashed region to encompass Watonga rock
Comment 9.2.2.1.1.1 30 Jun 2010, 4:23 PM
Great idea to increase the designated off leash beach area to encompass Watonga rock
The present area is too congested with speeding 4WD, camels,horses and dogs
Comment 9.2.2.1.2 28 Jun 2010, 9:11 PM
It is great to see dogs socialising and playing on the beach.Social interaction is very important to dog owners as well.The area south of Lighthouse 4 Wheel drive access is no longer adequate to accomodate the numbers of people who walk with their dogs.Would be ok if 4 wheel drive access was moved further south approx 1 km.Very dangerous.Too much traffic.Most people on the beach who walk their dogs are very friendly and social.Dog ownership improves ones disposition.
Comment 9.3 29 Jun 2010, 10:05 PM
Hi Pink
I wonder what you have done about the menacing/invading/cat challenging dogs
Comment 10 27 Jun 2010, 12:15 PM
My previous local council allowed you to collect a free supply of doggie clean up bags from their offices, which you can keep in the car or your pocket. Sometimes there are no clean up bags in the dispensers at the beach, if these were fully stocked, irresponsible dog owners would not be able to use this an excuse.
Comment 11 28 Jun 2010, 4:38 PM
I think this is an example of several irresponsible few giving the majority a bad name. I visit Nobby's Beach twice per day and the majority of dog owners there are responsible and fulfill their obligations.
Council supplies dog clean up bags (usually on a Monday) and the bags are usually gone by Tuesday at the latest, I think this shows how keen people are to do the right thing. The fact that the bags are gone is NO excuse for people not to clean up after their dogs, (the majority of us bring our own bags anyway) but I think this certainly needs to be factored into the equation. Obviously the amount of bags supplied does not meet the need - could Council look at supplying bags more regularly or more dispensers?
Also enforcing the law and penalising people who do the wrong thing would boost compliance.
PMHC Project Coordinator Comment 12 PMHC Project Coordinator 29 Jun 2010, 10:53 AM
While much of this discussion is very interesting it has moved away from the original question posed. Sticking to the topic will not only be an effective use of contributors time but will assist Council to make informed decisions on what level of education owners may need in regard to the Companions Animals Act.
Comment 12.1 29 Jun 2010, 3:53 PM
I don't think the issue is one of educating owners. Being aware of the Companion Animal Act doesn't resolve the problem in the Hastings. Council needs to allocate suitable off-leash areas for the 15,500 registered dogs residing here. Wauchope has no where to exercise their animals legally so owners are much more likely to breach the Act. The same issue exists in Bonny Hills/Lake Cathie in terms of lack of access onto the 'legal area'. Perhaps education can occur when Council completes their plan from year 2000 of increasing the number of suitable exercise areas for rate payers and their pooches.
Comment 12.2 29 Jun 2010, 10:09 PM
Council can still use this forum to include a summary of the obligations.
That might assist in a more focussed conversation
Comment 12.3 18 Jul 2010, 4:11 PM
I owned two dogs when the statute was the Dog Act. I knew my obligations. I lost my dogs and the Act changed to the Companion Animals Act. I still know the obligations of an owner. Today I went to the Wauchope park on the river with my children. I observed five (5) offenses under the Animal Companions Act including: Two dogs on leashes near play equipment. One dog off a lead near a BBQ and near play equipment. After lunch we went to Sancrox Park. Guess what, two (2) offenses. One dog off leash near play equipment. These owners know the rules. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Council should enforce compliance along similar lines to parking. If caught, get fined.
Comment 12.3.1 18 Jul 2010, 8:45 PM
Please consider the fact that Wauchope has NO designated 'off leash' areas. Council is in breach of the Companion Animals Act - Section 13 by not providing off leash exercise areas, even though they agreed to 10 years ago in order to increase our rates. Legal enforcement is not reasonable when dog owners (around 50% of rate payers) have no 'legal' areas that are in close proximity to where they live. If the dogs cannot run to let off some steam they become stressed, bored and start barking, digging and annoying the local community. Which is yet another offence....Just give our dogs suitable, accessible off leash areas throughout our shire and the majority of the said problem will be solved.
Comment 13 29 Jun 2010, 4:30 PM
The issue is not owners understanding the act because most would know the broad basics. The issue is enforcement as there is a blantant disregard for the general public. The council needs to be more pro-active in enforcing the laws to teh saftey of all. If I was an undercover ranger I could make a fortune any Saturday/Sunday on the coast walk stretch as so many people walk tehir dogs unleashed in areas other than Nobby's/ Southern Lighthouse. Our coast is for all to enjoy including those with dogs, unfortunately many dog owners forget that.
Comment 13.1 29 Jun 2010, 6:56 PM
Very sad to see that you believe dog owners choose to breach the Act...I think most dog owners just want areas that they can let their dogs run. It's not unreasonable, and Hastings Council chose to allow dog areas in Port itself. Back in 1999 they were given a rate rise to provide dog friendly parks, beaches. They took the raise and did nothing of note to address the need for dog areas.
Comment 13.1.1 30 Jun 2010, 9:38 AM
Another dog owner not recognising the issue, who is the sad one then, the person with a vested interest who breaks the law is. Its not that I object to dog owners having leash free areas, in fact council should look at more but the issue is in areas where dogs should be on leashes. At present too many dog owners break the laws in areas other then leash free areas and should be punsihed accordingly. I am not objecting to Nobby's/Southern lighthouse etc but for example last Sunday on Shelly Beach a dog owner was freely letting his dog run on the beach. The dog then dids its business on the towel of a surfer. As I said in dog areas fair enough but on other beaches and walks no way. As a side issue to allow walkers to complete coast walk without the dog issue then maybe council could look at a path across the top of Nobby's next to the road so people who do not like dogs do not have to have conflict with those that do.
Comment 13.1.1.1 30 Jun 2010, 6:04 PM
Rod I didn't mean you were sad, I meant the perception that all dog owners snub the law was sad. I totally agree that where there's allocated dog beaches/parks, that are accessible, dog owners have no business taking their dogs onto dog free beaches. My point is that when there are no off-leash options for people (outside of Port Macquarie in particular)it tends to encourage illegal off-leash activities. Therefore, rather than punishing dog owners and viewing us as a lawless lot, Council needs to provide reasonable open spaces for the hounds to run and socialise legally, where other people are not subject to our dogs. We can all be happy and enjoy our beautiful patch of paradise!
Comment 14 30 Jun 2010, 2:04 PM
As a dog owner I have many obligations as stated in the Companion Animals Act and which are enforced by the various authorities with the threat of very hefty fines - almost doubled by this Act. The most important being:
Ensure the dog is registered.
Ensure dog is under control at all times.
Abide by local restrictions on the dog.
Clean up after dog.
With the introduction of these rules and increased fines the Act also states that Council will provide off-leash exercise areas for the dogs as evidence by the following:
"The Companion Animal Act 1998 and the Local Government Area Act 1993 requires each council to provide an Off Leash area for the exercising of dogs. The BLUE MOUNTAINS COUNCIL has provided 5 Off Leash Areas. Each of these areas have signs outlining the conditions of use, a map showing the boundaries the off leash area which are also identified by green tipped markers, and each are provides a dog litter bin."
PORT MACQUARIE COUNCIL HAS FAILED TO MEET ITS OBLIGATIONS.
Comment 14.1 30 Jun 2010, 5:17 PM
Well said AXG!! I was just conducting searches to locate the electronic versions of the printed documents I have, which clearly state the responsibilities of councils under the Act - Section 13. They must provide off-leash areas for companion animals and dog refuse bins. The Council were allowed the opportunity of a rate increase 1999/2000 if they developed a Local Companion Animals Management Plan. It appears they developed a draft plan, increased the rates but never actually implemented that plan.
Comment 15 1 Jul 2010, 2:47 PM
For 20 years I have walked on Lighthouse Beach. Almost every day in some periods, but overall an average of two or three times a week - over 2,000 times. How time goes ! While I have had many bad experiences with dogs, of course, the percentage of bad experiences is small. People who walk with dogs seldom have a bad experience because dogs are more interested in other dogs than lone walkers. A very small proportion of dog walkers enjoy seeing their dog menace other dogs and even people. Last year a friend of ours on the Sculpture by the Sea walk in Sydney was knocked over and her leg broken by a dog on a leash. Many dog owners simply do not understand that dogs can be dangerous to other people who are unafraid of dogs and who like well behaved dogs.
Council must take account of the safety issue in establishing dog control regulations and in effectively enforcing them. Simply expecting all dog walkers to be considerate of others is quite unrealistic.
Eustace
Comment 15.1 2 Jul 2010, 6:58 PM
Why do you chose to walk where dogs are when you dislike and fear them so much?
Comment 15.1.1 3 Jul 2010, 10:59 AM
I walk on Lighthouse beach because the enjoyment is greater than the risks of occasional harassment by badly controlled dogs - obviously.
Council regulations on dog friendly areas states that "Dogs must be under control and supervised at all times when in leashfree areas".
I expect that Council officers will be happy to explain what is meant by "under control and supervised" to anyone who had difficulty understanding the regulation.
However I expect that a dog handler being further than 50 metres away from the dog being walked would not meet the intent of the regulation.
Comment 15.1.1.1 3 Jul 2010, 4:57 PM
As explained by myself and many others in this forum don't go to a designated unleashed beach and then complain that dogs are running around off leash.The purpose of these areas is as stated "UNLEASHED ie for exercise and fun ,where owners and their dogs can play."If I dislike something intensley I avoid it.I don't go out of my way to subject myself to this source.I don't go there just for the sake of winging.With most beaches in Port designated as no dogs zones, anti dog people have a choice to walk on these vast areas and avoid zones where myself and many other ratepayers who own dogs exercise and play.If anti dog people choose to walk in unleashed dog zones it is at their own risk.Remember rate payers comprise of more pet(dog) owners than non (dog) pet owners.
Comment 15.1.1.1.1 4 Jul 2010, 6:23 AM
"ckh"..you're missing the point. Its about dogowner's obligations to ensure their dog is under control in open public spaces. It is not about denying access to people without dogs to open spaces.
Surely this discussion is about finding ways to meet the needs of dog owners without limiting the rights or access to open public spaces of other individuals. Is that right or not? If you're proposing exclusive areas for dogs and their owners only, why not say that and allow council to consider it and others to discuss it?
Comment 15.1.1.1.1.1 4 Jul 2010, 9:37 AM
No Boomer I am not missing the point.Anything but!You are!
People who dislike dogs have acccess to all dog restricted areas as well as unleashed dog areas BUT they DO NOT have a right to whinge if they choose to to be in a dog leash free area where we dog people are exercising our dogs.If for example I don't like children, I keep away from areas where children frequent eg childrens play areas.Ie currently most areas are at this point off limits to dogs.
Comment 15.1.1.1.1.1.1 5 Jul 2010, 5:47 AM
You're making the mistake of assuming that people who are not as confident around dogs as you are, for example elderly people, hate dogs. The reality of the situation is that if you're in a dog leash free area with your dog, you have an obligation to control your dog, regardless of who else may be in the area. You and everybody else has the right to be in that area, YOU HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO CONTROL YOUR DOG.
Comment 15.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 5 Jul 2010, 5:31 PM
Most elderly people actually like dogs and thrive on the social interaction of mixing with dogs and their owners.I actually regulary encounter many elderly people who come up to my dog and myself just to pat and socialise with my dog and others I may walk with and their pets.These pleasent dog friendly people NEVER whinge about my dog or other dogs.Most dogs are well behaved.However I cannot however say this about some teenagers on the beach.IF PEOPLE DISLIKE /FEAR DOGS THEY HAVE LOTS OF PLACES TO WALK!They are not restricted to walking in leash free dog areas and actually it is very silly for them to contemplate walking somewhere where there is a neagtive influence for them.
Comment 15.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 6 Jul 2010, 10:39 AM
'ckh'..for the purpose of this consultation and so that Council are aware and others can choose to agree or disagree with you, you're recommending Council exclude access to open areas for dogs by all people other than those with a dog?
Comment 15.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 6 Jul 2010, 5:32 PM
Boomer,
No I shall repeat what I said again so you understand.At no time have I ever recommended that the Council exclude access to open areas for dogs by all people other than those with dogs.My comment advises If people do not like dogs they have lots of places to walk and have the option of avoiding dogs altogether and walking in areas which restrict entry to dogs which is most places. However dog owner rate payers are restricted to the ridiculously small 2 off leash areas currently allocated to dogs.Why would people choose to walk somewhere where they fear and dislike dogs who are exercising and playing with their ratepayer owners offleash.This would be like me going to a football game and intensley loathing football.At no time have I ever stated that these areas should be exclusive to offleash dogs and their owners but commonsense would indicate you surely would not go near them if someone feared and disliked dogs.frequently people that walk the beach without dogs actually like dogs and come up to say hi and pat my dogs and other peoples dogs.
Comment 16 2 Jul 2010, 8:13 AM
As an "owner" and a resident will people on this forum please respect one thing for each other in this local government area?
If you have a fear of dog encounters of any type don't go to designated dog off leash beaches and then complain. If you dislike misbehaving children, don't go to an area of beach where they are, its really too simple to define any other way. If you choose to go to a designated area for unleashed dogs, remember that they too, regardless of how well they are trained, like to make liars out of their owners and "Play-up" while having a romp in an environment that they are enjoying. Any agressive behaviour of dogs or humans should be immediately be put in check. Unfortunately we can't muzzle or leash humans, we have to rely on reason and logic.
The moral here is, if its a designated off leash area for dogs, either choose not to go there or be prepared for encounters of undefined enthusiasm.
Comment 16.1 2 Jul 2010, 7:00 PM
Ecoprisoner your comment is a fabulous one and highly correct.
Comment 16.2 3 Jul 2010, 11:10 AM
It is unreasonable to expect that people will give up any law abiding pleasure simply because others are inconsiderate. People normally continue the pleasure because it outweighs the disadvantages. If the disadvantage can be reduced by reasonable enforcement of Council regulations it is only sensible to ask for this.
In the case of dogs, the Council regulation is that "Dogs must be under controlled and supervised at all times in leashfree areas". Every walker would be delighted if this was always the case.
Comment 16.2.1 3 Jul 2010, 5:23 PM
If you dislike dogs so much keep away from unleashed dog areas.You should focus your whinging on the antisocial vandalising behaviour of the louts in town and stop complaining about dogs in offleashed areas of the beach.Go to the Glass House area of an afternoon or evening and you will be sure to be knocked over and or sworn at by louts.I have lived in Port 50 years and choose to exercise my dog on the designated unleashed dog area.This is my right.Most people on the beach are very friendly and love animals.It is a very social atmosphere for both dogs and people.The occasional person has a chip on their shoulder and you can tell is anti dog.You can spot them a mile off.These people are the problem not the dogs.No one forces them to be in designated off leashed areas.If pepole dislike dogs they have a choice to avoid these areas as "ckh" and "Ecoprisoner" have both stated so well.
Comment 16.2.1.1 4 Jul 2010, 6:30 AM
You're wrong! Its about being able to take your dog to designated off leash areas while understanding and ensuring the rights of others to use those areas. Its about being a responsible dog owner not removing or limiting the rights of others. By way of example if you have a drivers licence you're obligated to drive on the right hand side of the road, not drive while under the influence, not speed, give way to the right etc. These are basic obligations that recognise the rights of others and ensure that as much as possible the roads system actually works and is reasonably safe. Imagine what the roads would be like if drivers did'nt meet these basic obligations! Similarly, here it is about dog owners meeting their obligations in open public spaces.
Comment 16.2.1.1.1 4 Jul 2010, 10:21 AM
Boomer you are incorrect.The point is that rarely have I witnesssed or encountered a problem on the leash free dog beaches and I walk daily with my dog.99.9% of dog ownwers are responsible and meet their obligations. Except being that with the area growing so much over the last 50 years more dogs and no change in the designated allocated dog leash free areas.The allocated space being to small is the problem and at southern end of Lighthouse beach it is ridiculous and dangerous to have this open to 4WD access.The council needs to police some of these idiot cowboy dangerous drivers and to move 4WD access 1 km futher south to enable a safe area for dogs and their owners.I rarely see have seen a problem with dog control.Most owners are highly responsible.Dogs and owners socialise and interact well.People that dislike dogs also have an obligation and that is why frequent a dog leash free area if you dont like dogs.I you choose to walk here don't whinge as myself and others keep stating.Actually most recently I have encountered more used needles and syringes than faeces on the beach so watch your step!!
Comment 16.2.1.1.1.1 5 Jul 2010, 5:55 AM
Dolphin the fact 99.9% are of owners are responsible is fantastic. However, I don't agree that people who may feel intimidated by dogs "hate dogs", I suggest they are not as confident with dogs as those 99.9% of owners and accordingly, it is up to those owners to ensure their dog is undercontrol at all times, it not about denying access to anyone or removing anyone's rights.
I appreciate that there may not be enough space and it would seem to me that for owners to be able to fully able meet their obligations, more leash free space needs to be created.
Comment 17 5 Jul 2010, 7:48 PM
My father always had either border collies or kelpies to help work the sheep. He could control the dogs from a considerable distance by hand signals and whistling. Of course these were trained dogs. Council might consider requiring obedience tests for owners of dogs seen running wild on Lighthouse Beach.
Eustace
Comment 17.1 5 Jul 2010, 9:47 PM
Removed by moderator - the comment failed to respect the views of other users
Comment 17.1.1 6 Jul 2010, 10:57 AM
I regret that it is necessary to repeat information on this forum simply because some people either do not read previous comments, or choose to ignore or distort them. I have stated that I rather like dogs, that I do not fear dogs and that our family has owned dogs. I have noted that people who walk dogs, like you, do not get hassled by other dogs. Lone walkers, children and sometimes women do get hassled. The events are infrequent, but disturbing. People who have had a rare bad experience are unlikely to contribute to, or even read, this forum discussion. My observations represent views of many non participants in this forum, such as those of our friend whose leg was broken by being knocked over by an aggressive leashed dog in a busy walking path in Sydney. I am concerned that Council regulations regarding dogs in prohibited, leashed and unleashed areas should be improved, not weakened.
Comment 18 6 Jul 2010, 6:12 PM
As a dog owner and local resident and ratepayer of Port Macquarie for 50 years it is obvious that the current dog regulations need to be significantly reduced and the allocated offleashed areas significantly increased in space and numbers re offleashed beach areas and fenced exercise areas.Yes I am also aware of the 1999 Companion Animals management Plan(explained very well in comments section by Dingo) which enabled councils to increase rates on the priviso that offleashed exercise areas where provided.Well what happened here Port Macquarie Hastings Council?? failed misrebly.
I am a senior citizen and walk most days on the beach more…
Comment 18.1 10 Jul 2010, 5:06 PM
Exactly Dolphin! Dog owners have been the quiet majority for way too long. We have been entitled to off leash areas for over 10 years, just the majority of rate payers do not realise that Council took the rate rise without following through in all areas. Wauchope has none, Bonny Hills/Lake Cathie is not accessible and Laurieton has no designated areas. Port seems to have been the only area that some token 'dog friendly' compliance occurred. Council lift your game and give us what we've paid for.
Comment 19 7 Jul 2010, 12:58 PM
I think I am very aware of my responsibilities as a dog owner. My dogs have travelled with us all over Australia and we find that most places have similar obligations for dog owners. We find that dog owners are mostly very responsible, happy and friendly people. We have never had any problems with ours or other peoples dogs wherever we have stayed. The same applies here as dog owners we have met while exercising our dogs have been very friendly, responsible people who control their animals and clean up after them.
Comment 20 10 Jul 2010, 5:43 PM
The Council could write in the paper monthly aspects of this Act and perhaps a Van could circulate around the community promoting the information and discussing the Act with residents i.e. beach venues, parks, walkways etc.
Comment 21 13 Jul 2010, 9:26 AM
Perhaps COUNCIL could advertise the RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES of dog owners. VIA newspapers, signage at designated dog exercise ares, pamphlets at Visitor Information centre.
Comment 22 13 Jul 2010, 9:58 AM
Owners obligations should include providing their own whoopsi bags - MY dog, MY whoopsi, MY responsibility.
Could COUNCIL and DOG groups encourage people to buy their own personal container (from pet shops and they last for years) and attach it to their lead permanently ??????????????????????????.
QUITE SIMPLE ISN'T IT!
This cost should NOT be Council's cost, HOWEVER providing garbage bins in which to put the droppings IN is.
Comment 23 13 Jul 2010, 3:01 PM
I recently attended a puppy preschool class with my new puppy. It was held by East Port Vet and was really great.
In terms of owners obligations, we learnt how to effectively control our dogs, how to walk them on a lead, discourage aggression and jumping, where we are allowed to walk them in public (and where we are not), and they talked about picking up after your dog. They gave us the councils brochure on dog ownership too. I already have another dog, I still learnt a lot and my new puppy learned valuable social skills.
It would be great if council could hold or support similar classes, this would ensure that every dog owner is aware of their obligations. Maybe look at giving out class information or contacts for the Obedience Club in Port Macquarie when dogs are lifetime registered through council? Or subsidising the cost to encourage more people to participate in puppy and obedience classes? I know the obedience club in port holds 6 week beginner classes which again teach valuable skills, they could be approached to also educate on owner obligations?
